Hello, writing friends, and welcome back to Chelsea’s World of Books blog. Can you believe we’re in the new year ALREADY? And to get things started, we’re diving into 2024 with a very special guest; Children’s Book Author of one of our favorites, FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, Debra Shumaker!
But before we get started… just in case this is your first time here, let me tell you a little about what makes segments special.
WHAT’S SO GREAT ABOUT FEATURE INTERVIEWS?
Feature Interviews are an INVALUABLE resource for kidlit writers and illustrators at every stage of their publishing journey. Not only are they a great way to stay current on market trends and learn more about the industry’s ins and outs, but they also give readers an up close & personal look at the world of publication from the perspectives of a diverse collection of creators.
Every month, I sit down with members of the writing community (authors, illustrators, editors, and agents), and we discuss all things kidlit publishing.
Here are a few examples of topics:
- Writing workshops and resources
- Diversity in literature and why it matters
- Where to find support and community
- How to improve writing craft and set goals
- How to deal with setbacks/disappointments and WAITING
- Helpful tips and suggestions for aspiring authors and illustrators
- Querying agents, contract negotiations, book deals, and time frames
- And of course- NEW BOOKS!
So, now that you know what to expect… let’s get into our interview.
Debra Kempf Shumaker started reading at the age of four and hasn’t stopped since. She grew up on a small dairy farm in Wisconsin but now writes fiction and nonfiction picture books from the suburbs of Northern Virginia. She is the author of the nonfiction rhyming FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, and PECULIAR PRIMATES (Running Press Kids, 2021 & 2022), a social-emotional learning book, TELL SOMEONE (Albert Whitman, 2021), and the upcoming WIND IS (Kids Can Press, 2024). Debra is also the co-host of #PBPitch, a Twitter pitch party for picture books held every February, June, and October. When she isn’t reading or writing, she enjoys hiking, gardening, and watching Jeopardy. Visit her online at www.debrashumaker.com, on Twitter at @ShumakerDebra, and on Instagram at @debrakshumaker.
THE SPARK THAT STARTED IT ALL
Debra, I can’t tell you how thrilled I was to find your name among the many stuffed in my submissions box for the 2024 Feature Interview lineup. Being a librarian and kidlit writer myself, I’ve had and witnessed many delightful read-alouds of your stories. Something that I love about your writing style is how you blend education with fun- and, to top it all off, you incorporate rhyme! Which is something that I think only the real wizardly kidlit writers of the world can successfully tame. But before I go off on a tangent on your books (I promise we’ll circle back to it), I’d love to start our conversation today by asking how you landed in the world of children’s publishing. What was “the spark that started it all?”
First, thank you so much for your kind words! I love hearing that read-alouds with my books are delightful! As far as “the spark,” as many writers can relate, I’ve always loved reading and had the “some day” dream of writing a novel. When I married and had kids, I took a step back from my corporate job and became a stay-at-home Mom. I took the kids to the library several times a week, checking out dozens of picture books. And I was floored. I didn’t remember picture books like those when I was a kid. And I fell in love with picture books. I decided that I was going to figure out how to be a part of the picture book creation. My kids are in their upper teens and twenties now, so it took a while, but I figured it out!
Can you tell us a little bit about what kinds of stories you write and why you write them?
I write both fiction and nonfiction picture books. So far, I’ve had more success with my nonfiction books. But I write whatever strikes my fancy. Many ideas come from some random fact that I read about or some emotions I’m feeling—wonder, joy, fear, sadness, or a complicated mixture—and want to write a story to give a place for kids to either find that wonder or explore their complicated feelings, too. And sometimes, I write a story because an editor asked for a specific story.
I understand that you grew up on a small farm with eight siblings, and you’ve always loved reading. Can you tell us a little more about your childhood experiences with books and maybe share some of your favorites?
Growing up, as I did, we didn’t have a lot of money. But my Dad loved reading, so somehow, we always had books in our house, mostly from rummage sales or from people who knew we had a big family and wanted to pass down books from their family. I also loved Library Day and Scholastic Book Fairs. I don’t remember reading too many picture books, but I remember reading lots of easy readers. My favorite were Disney Encyclopedias. I spent hours and hours reading those!
I mentioned before that I’m a librarian… and I noticed on your website that your favorite day of each week as a young girl was “library day” at school. Which makes me so happy- mine was too! Can you tell us a little bit about the magic you experienced as a young girl in the library and what memories stand out most to you to this day?
As I mentioned, money was tight. Also, there were no bookstores nearby. I depended on Library Day during the school year and the Book Mobile (that we would bike to in the summer) to have new books to read. I remember the awe of walking up and down the bookshelves and picking as many as I could fit in my arms. I loved horses and probably read every horse book the library and Book Mobile had.
Now we’ve talked about the past… let’s fast-forward a little. Before becoming a children’s book author, what was life like? What kind of work did you do? And what were the events that led to the switch to writing as a career?
My first career out of college was as a Registered Dietitian for a nursing home. I eventually moved on to training healthcare software to staff in nursing homes, then staff development training for a healthcare software company. Not publishing-related at all. But sometimes, I took writing classes at community colleges because I dreamed of writing a novel someday. After having kids, becoming a stay-at-home Mom, and taking my boys to the library, the spark was ignited, as I noted in the first question. It took me a few years to call myself a writer, and a lot more years to finally get that byline in a magazine, and many more years before getting my name on a book!
THE PROCESS: QUERYING AGENTS/SUBMITTING TO PUBLISHING HOUSES
What was the publishing process like for you? Can you share a little about your experience with querying agents? When did you begin your publishing journey? When/how did you find your agent agent/agency match?
The publishing process was very long. I started writing for kids in 2007, but with three boys in 3 ½ years, very sporadically. Once they started school, I started being more intentional in finding time to write. At first I wrote both picture books and magazine articles and did find success with a few articles in Boys’ Quest, Fun for Kidz, and Spider. By 2011, I had joined SCBWI and started seriously submitting picture books to editors then agents. Participating in challenges like PiBoIdMo (Picture Book Idea Month) and 12 x 12 greatly improved my writing and my understanding of publishing. Around 2015, I finally started getting champagne rejections and requests for R&Rs (revise and resubmits), but didn’t connect with an agent until 2017. That was Natascha Morris with BookEnds Literary. I submitted one of my fiction stories to her through the normal query process. She loved it and asked for a few more, then offered representation. (After she sold my first two books, she did leave BookEnds. I am now repped by James McGowan with BookEnds.)
Once you signed with your agent/agency, what was the submission process like?
The benefit to having an agent is to have the doors to bigger publishers open up. But having an agent also meant that every story I wrote did not necessarily go on sub. She had to feel confident in it, too. But I loved being able to put all my focus on my writing instead of researching agents or houses that took unsolicited subs.
How long did it take to receive your first book deal?
I first signed with Natascha in July of 2017. After a few revisions, she subbed that first story widely. I had several R&Rs, and it went to acquisitions to around 4 or 5 houses, but we never sold that book. It was 18 months and four other manuscript submissions later before we finally found an editor who gave me a YES. And that was for FREAKY, FUNKY FISH in January of 2019.
RESOURCES & WORDS OF ADVICE
The beginning stages of the writing journey is a very tender time. It’s a time for learning and growth. Like everything in life, real growth comes through patience and trial and error. And it can be difficult. Rejections sting. Waiting is hard. But, the further along you go, the stronger you get and the more you learn. What has been your biggest challenge in the kidlit publishing arena, and how have you been able to overcome it?
Rejection is hard. The one thing writers can’t control is agents or editors deciding to take on your book. One thing I could control was to continue to work on my craft and to continue to write and submit. I continually reminded myself that agents and editors were rejecting my stories, not me personally.
If you could share a piece of advice with newly aspiring authors or illustrators, what would it be?
I tell every aspiring picture book author to type up the text of picture books they love. (And that have been published in the last few years.) It’s the best way to get a feel for voice, pacing, page turns, and so much more. By doing this, it will become more innate when they write. Plus, if the book they are typing up has both an author and an illustrator, aspiring authors can get a better idea of how the manuscript looked when it was bought as a text-only document. Odds are, there was a lot of room left for the illustrator. I’ve typed up more than 300 books since 2015, and I continue to do so on a regular basis. My first drafts have improved so much because of this exercise.
Speaking of words of advice… let’s talk a little bit about writing community and resources. What are some of the best resources you were able to find when you started down the road to kidlit publishing?
In my first few years of writing, I didn’t know where to get ideas. I only had two manuscripts that I worked on over and over again. Thankfully, I stumbled upon Tara Lazar’s PiBoIdMo (Picture Book Idea Month) which has now morphed into StoryStorm that happens every January. It trained my brain to always be on alert for ideas, and now I have more than I can handle. Shortly after my first PiBoIdMo, I found Julie Hedlund’s 12x12. This was back when there weren’t agent submission opportunities and “levels”, just a community of writers attempting to write 12 picture book drafts in 12 months. Being a part of that community was priceless. The KidLit411 website is an amazing resource for KidLit writers.
Since we’re discussing helpful resources, I’d like to add the importance of having a strong writing community. Making connections is one of the best things a new writer or illustrator can do. Not only do you learn from each other… but you’re able to support and lift one another up. You can share and celebrate good news- and share and comfort hard news. It’s crucial for your mental health as a creator to have your clan of supporters around you- who both understand what it’s like and appreciate your continued efforts. Where are some places you’d recommend going to find that “kidlit community”?
Besides StoryStorm and 12x12, I love the KidLit411 Community on Facebook. Facebook has many great writing groups for community. But I also highly recommend finding a critique group, or two, or three, either in-person or online. I belong to four! The KidLit 411 website offers a place to find critique partners. And join SCBWI. When you join the national organization, you will get placed in a regional chapter. Conferences are an amazing way to meet fellow creators. Attending my regional conference is how I found my in-person critique group.
Another thing I think can really help to keep a creator’s creative juices flowing and inspired is participating in kidlit events. There are so many great contests out there! One of them is one that you co-host. Can you tell us a little bit about how you started #PBPitch events on Twitter/X, what they are, and what their intended purpose is?
Ah, #PBPitch. I’m so proud of it. It started back in 2015. I had just joined Twitter because in various KidLit groups on Facebook, I kept hearing about #PitMad, which was a pitch party for books for all ages. (For pitch parties, creators post a pitch for a completed manuscript with the corresponding hashtag, and if an agent or editor “hearts” it, it’s an invitation to submit the manuscript.) In March 2015, I participated in my first #PitMad, and there seemed to be very little love for picture books that day. Mandy Yates posted in one of the FB groups that someone should start one for just picture books. I responded that I had no idea what I was doing but would help. As did PJ McIlvaine. And before we knew it, the three of us created #PBPitch and hosted our first one a few months later. We had no idea if anyone would tweet or if any agent or editor would stop by, but they did! We’ve held it three times a year ever since. Each one has resulted in at least one successful agent match or book deal. We have numerous success stories on our website (pbpitch.weebly.com), and I’m sure many more have happened that we just aren’t aware of.
PREPPING FOR DEBUT AUTHOR BOOK LAUNCH: ORGANIZING VISITS/EVENTS: SCHOOLS, LIBRARIES, BOOK SIGNINGS
Okay, so now we have an agent, a book deal, and a launch date. Yay! Now what? Now it’s time to SELL the book. Can you tell us about your experience in preparing for your debut book launch and creating your author brand? What worked best? What didn’t? And why?
My debut, FREAKY, FUNKY FISH: ODD FACTS ABOUT FASCINATING FISH, came out in May 2021 when the world was still largely shut down due to the pandemic. I was able to have a launch outside of my local indie, Scrawl Books, but the weather was quite windy and chilly and sparsely attended. However, in getting ready for my debut, I joined a co-marketing group called PB Debut Troupe 21. Fourteen of us creators had debuts coming out that year, and we shared our joy, commiserated in the frustrations, helped boost each other’s books on social media, and wrote reviews. I’m still good friends with those creators. I highly recommend debuts join or create a co-marketing group!
A great way to boost your brand and share your story with others is by hosting author visits. Can you tell us about some of the visits you’ve hosted? How do you conduct your author visits? How long are they? Do you charge an author fee? Are you the one organizing them, or is it your agent/publisher? If you’re the one organizing, how do you go about reaching out about scheduling your visit?
Occasionally, a bookstore has reached out to my publisher for an author event, but that’s only been once or twice. So, 99% of the time, I am doing the outreach to bookstores, schools, and libraries. For readings at bookstores, I do not charge a fee, but for programs at libraries and schools, I do. For Author Visits at schools, I do 3 - 4 presentations in one day–I don’t only read my book and talk about being an author, I have presentations connected to curriculum. To promote my Author Visits, I’ve attended my state’s librarian conferences to connect with librarians. I’ve also sent out postcards to local schools. I did about six visits last year and loved them, and hope to do more!
What has been the response to the author visits? What has been your favorite part? What has been their favorite part?
My favorite part is being with the kids and exciting them about writing, reading, and science. Hearing them laugh about the facts in my book is priceless. And seeing their eyes light up because they are meeting a real, live author just warms my heart. Their favorite part is probably getting out of regular class, LOL. But I do think many of them love meeting someone who wrote the words in a book they read or heard.
THE BOOKS! RHYME, EDUCATION & HEART
Okay, I promised we’d circle back- and here we are. We’ve finally arrived at my favorite part of the interview- THE BOOKS!
As I mentioned earlier, I’m a big fan of your stories. I love learning, and your books FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, and PECULIAR PRIMATES are such inventive ways to spread knowledge. And your story TELL SOMEONE is just beautiful. But, enough about how much I love your work. I’d love to hear from YOU about each of your books. We touched on the types of books you write and why briefly earlier, but now I want to dig a little deeper. How did each of your stories come to be? What was the inspiration behind them? And what do you hope each story will give your reader?
For my debut, FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, I have to thank my first agent. I had been writing picture book biographies that just weren’t selling. She encouraged me to try something different. Since I love all nonfiction, I decided to try my hand at a science-y picture book and read some rhyming ones about bugs, water, squirrels, etc. I challenged myself to write one about a different animal. I recalled some research I had done about fish for a different fiction manuscript I wrote and remembered how strange some fish were. And wa-la, an idea was born.
For TELL SOMEONE, an editor asked my first agent if she had a writer who would like to try writing a story encouraging kids to talk about their feelings since Albert Whitman wanted to have one on their list. Natascha asked me. My gut reaction was “No,” as I had never written anything “on assignment,” but I pushed myself out of my comfort zone and said I would try. A few months later, I had a contract.
After we were in the final stages of FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, I decided to write a companion book about birds, which I titled BIZARRE BIRDS. Running Press Kids felt there were too many picture books about birds and asked if I’d be interested in writing one about primates, so I did!
For my science books, I hope kids are fascinated by the diversity of our world and are inspired to do what they can to preserve it. For TELL SOMEONE, I hope kids are encouraged to talk about their feelings in both good times and hard times. Mental health is important.
There’s a fun musicality that you use in your writing that truly puts the “fun” into “fun facts,” and at the same time, it’s funny. Heart, humor, and education are my favorite combination. And, somehow, you managed to add RHYME into the mix?! Possibly proving that you’re a magician? (Are you a magician?) Can you tell us what inspired you to write your stories in rhyme and what that process looked/felt like?
I love rhyme. My first publication ever was a rhyming poem about a snail who ate a nail in my 3rd-grade newsletter. I frequently wrote “odes” for various occasions growing up, for fun, so I think my debut was destined to rhyme, LOL. When I started writing picture books, I wrote several fiction/concept stories that rhymed but never sold. Some books seem to work better in rhyme, and for both the fish and primates books, I felt rhyme gave them another hook vs. just a list of strange animal adaptations. It’s a lot of work but so much fun, like setting a puzzle.
Did you have anyone try to discourage you from writing in rhyme- and if so, how did you respond?
No, no one discouraged me. I understand meter and know that rhyme is more than just counting syllables and using rhyming words at the end of two lines, so as I revise, I know the rhyme will read smoothly. I won’t quit until it does.
Okay, we’ve talked about rhyme. Now, let’s talk about illustration. Can you tell us about how you ended up with your illustrators and what your first thoughts were?
For Freaky Funky Fish & Peculiar Primates- Claire Powell
Tell Someone- Tristan Yuvienco
For both publishers, as is typical in traditional publishing, Running Press Kids and Albert Whitman found the illustrators. For Albert Whitman, the editor and art director, paired my text with Tristan’s art for the pitch at the acquisitions meeting, which was different from Running Press Kids. With them, FREAKY, FUNKY FISH was acquired first, then it took over ten months for them to find an illustrator.
I was absolutely thrilled with both Claire and Tristan once they were selected. Their portfolios were amazing.
Did you envision your characters and stories in a similar way to how they were illustrated?
For FREAKY, FUNKY FISH, I really didn’t have any vision in my head as I had seen so many photos of the fish as I was researching and writing it that I didn’t really give a thought to how they would look illustrated. But seeing Claire’s sketches for the first time was amazing—I loved the personalities she gave all the various fish!
For TELL SOMEONE, I hoped the art would depict various and diverse kids in the different scenarios, so Tristan’s art was in line with what I envisioned. But I was still amazed. His art is so sweet, I want to hug each child in that book.
Do you have a favorite spread from each book?
While I love so much about the illustrations in all three books, my favorite spread in FREAKY, FUNKY FISH is the one with the hammerhead shark and parrotfish. I love Claire’s colors and humor.
For PECULIAR PRIMATES, I love the nighttime scenes–the various primates are so adorable and huggable in that spread!
For TELL SOMEONE, my favorite page is the girl on the first day of school. Tristan’s perspective on this page really emphasizes the girl’s nervousness.
And… you have a new book coming out this Fall. Can you tell us a little bit about that one?
Yes, I do, and I’m so excited about it! WIND IS A DANCE, illustrated by the fabulous Josée Bisaillon, comes out with Kids Can Press on October 1, 2024. This book is a lyrical ode to the wind. I use metaphors to describe various winds we experience—from a ruffling, fluffing breeze to a rumbling, tumbling derecho. I’ve recently seen the colored sketches, and Josée’s art is SO stunning. I cannot wait for the world to see it!
If you could send your past self any piece of writerly advice, what would it be?
Be prepared for the long haul. Getting published is so, so hard, but absolutely worth it.
What’s one last message/piece of advice you’d like to impart to your readers?
If you are a writer and you want to be published, don’t give up. It may take more than 10 years, like it did for me. Work hard on craft and write new stories. Every manuscript you write will likely not get published. I wrote dozens of first drafts and about fifteen polished picture books before my first one was acquired. But I learned something from each manuscript I wrote, not one was a wasted effort.
Thanks so much for joining us today, Debra.
But we’re not quite finished. There’s still one last item on the agenda. And that is… the GIVEAWAY!
GIVEAWAY
Debra Shumaker is offering the following giveaway prize.
“A signed copy of one of my three books!”
HOW TO ENTER THE GIVEAWAY
During the month of January 2024:
- Subscribe to the blog
- Like this blog post
- Leave a comment below letting me know you’ve done 1-2. (If the guest is offering more than one prize, please specify which you’d like in the comments below.)
And that’s it!
FAQ: What if I was already subscribed to the blog? Does that mean I won’t qualify for the Prize Giveaway? Not at all! If you subscribed PRIOR to this month, all you’ll need to do is LIKE this Feature Interview and leave your comment below this post.
Did you enjoy this interview? Thank the author & host by purchasing or reviewing one of their books! Using the sponsored links below also helps support this blog.
Debra Kempf Shumaker’s Books
Wind is a Dance (not yet available for pre-order)
Chelsea DiCicco’s Book
Connect with Debra Shumaker
Visit her website: www.debrashumaker.com
Visit her Twitter/X: @ShumakerDebra
Visit her Instagram: @debrakshumaker
Visit her Bluesky: @debrakshumaker
Love Debra’s work! We have both the Fish and Primates books in our Library. Looking forward to reading Tell Someone.
Nice to see you here Linda! Thank you for reading! Looking forward to WRAD! 🙂
Love Debra’s books. We have both Fish and Primates in our Library. Can’t wait to read Tell Someone.
I enjoyed reading Peculiar Primates and look forward to reading the other two. So much info in the interview. Thanks for sharing and congratulations, Debra!
Thanks for stopping by, Kim!
“Be prepared for the long haul” is so true. Not only for ones debut book, but also for those that hopefully follow. Thank-you for your honesty in this interview.
It is such a slow and challenging journey. Thanks for reading!
Great interview! Love hearing about the journey because we always only see the good news.
Thank you for reading, Roseanne!
Great interview!! Your books are so appealing, Debra, and I enjoyed reading about your journey!
Thank you Sydney!
I love this. So much great information. The journey is not the same for everyone, but the fact that it is a journey IS one thing in common. I did subscribe and did 1 and 2. Thank you.
Thanks for reading!
Debra, I really enjoyed getting to know you and your journey a bit more through this great blog post!
Thanks Jennifer! Nice to see you here! 🙂
Just discovered this blog with the Debra Shumaker interview. Important info. Thank you both.